Curse

Codesmythe · Dec 05, 2007, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Sins too powerful for monks.

I am very frustrated at the moment. I do a lot of AB, and generally do OK. I estimate that among monks I'm at least average(IMHO).

However.

One sin can wipe me off the map in roughly about 1/4 of a sec(not to mention that Elementals can do it in about .5 sec).

Is this normal for all monks? My setup is all survivor, minor runes, a staff with an unconditional +5 armor. My health runs around 590; 630 when enchanted.

It seems to me that a monk, with full energy(pre-enchanted with PS and possibly a little more armor than some) should last a full(pick a value) second or so.

One thing I've noticed is that when this happens, my heads-up damage indicator shows:

3X(insert spell here)
2X(insert another spell here)

This is displayed before I can even react to the attack, and I'm dead.

The same, more or less, when set afire by an elemental.

Setup follows:

OwYT0mHD5ZmcX30tkWX9IggMAA

Codesmythe

Stormlord Alex · Dec 05, 2007, 04:36 PM // 16:36

You had Prot Spirit on.

And got killed by an Ele?

Wait... what?

Minwanabi · Dec 05, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Seriously, wow? Just.. pre-prot guardian, or veil, and gg sins. Also dark escape/return, or RoF, and PS or SB > Ele. I don't understand how you could possibly die. And there's really no way you died against an ele if you had PS on. At worst, it would take him 6-7 spells and burning to finish you off, in which time you'd have ages to deal with it.

Div · Dec 05, 2007, 04:51 PM // 16:51

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10222589

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10077894

They're stickied for a reason. After reading them, hopefully you'll get better at monking and survive a sin or ele trying to kill you. And how anyone manages to kill in half a second is beyond me.

Lima · Dec 05, 2007, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Sins in AB can kill pretty much in the time it takes you to blink, give or take a millisecond. If you don't see it comin and you're a squishy char like a monk, or any other spellcaster without decent defences, you're toast. I don't understand how you got done with PS on though, maybe you're gettin affected by some enchantment removal from a different profession. I know as a mesmer I run chant removal and it's not unheard of for monks to be the first to be targeted by it

I D E L E T E D I · Dec 05, 2007, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Its because PS is pretty much useless vs sins. Bring SB instead. SB+Dismiss Condition=GG
Thats if course when your unprepred. If you can see it coming guardian.

Codesmythe · Dec 05, 2007, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Hmmmm. Must of raised a few eyebrows out there.

Stormlord Alex: IDK, perhaps there were two Eles. Hard to tell with your eyebrows on fire, etc...

I D E L E T E D I: Good advice. I get a 22 sec PS, which does indeed prevent one bolt of lighting to get a team mate. It's the 10 sec cap on SB that prevents me from using it.

Minwanabi: You may be correct. Haven't tested the "dark escape/return" in quite a long time now. Sure hate to give up those two slots thou.

holymasamune: Thanks for the guide references. They are very well written and exceedingly useful. I probably do need to read them again for the 5th or 6th time. However I have to wonder how long it's been since you've played in an AB match. Use all you've got and let us know if you manage to evade one of those sin hotshots. Not every sin is capable of doing this, so you'll need to play a several games. BTW, I have managed to survive up to 2 or 3 simultaneous attacks by 2 or 3 opponents. I can hit buttons if given a reasonable amount of time.

But, I've digressed. As the title implies, it's the sins that I know are by themselves. It's the fact that it happens faster than I can respond to. That's why I mentioned the 2X(spell), 3x(spell) msg. How can they possibly put 5 plus spells on me before I can hit one key, much less two?!

Did I mention the sin attack is only about a 1/4 sec volly? Did I mention 5 plus spells applied in this time frame?

Thanks for the input guys!

Codesmythe

Chthon · Dec 05, 2007, 07:45 PM // 19:45

1. Watch the radar. Watch for incoming red dots and C-tab-tab-tab to check their classes. Watch for red dots approaching in a straight line despite intervening terrain -- they are almost always planning a shadow step. This should enable you to prot yourself before you get hit. Pre-protting against sins is pretty much vital, since they're going to do their best to prevent you from being able to respond at all through knockdowns and spiky damage signatures.

2. These wouldn't happen to be those damn dancing daggers/entangling asp/signet wikitrash sins, would they? (I would link to the build, but it seems someone hated it enough to delete from the wiki...) I've seen a couple of those in low-end PvP (!) repeatedly firing off their attack chains in such perfect, such rapid succession that I strongly suspect they're using an input macro to execute the chain as quickly as possible with 1 button press. (Just a couple highly suspicious individuals; most of the users of this build are so bad at it that they obviously are not cheating.) If you ran into one of them, that might explain how you're taking 5+ hits before you can react. Not a whole hell of a lot you can do about it, though. Steer clear of them if you can and pre-prot yourself when you can't.

Codesmythe · Dec 05, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Chthon: I am in your debt Sir. That explains the sequence of events I've witnessed. I am almost certain that's it.

My hat is off to you.

Thanks

Codesmyhthe

I D E L E T E D I · Dec 05, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

yup SB only does have 10 seconds lasting, but the sin and its spike isnt even going to last that long. Prot Spirit defenitly has its use but in places such as the Arenas and AB, SB will always be ther better choice.

There was a post somewhere here or on QQ forums about why SB was better and explains it far better than i ever could. If i find it ill post it.

I found something not exactly what i was looking for but still explains it well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

SB and PS are both good in PvP and PvE in their own ways. PS to keep on the infuser during spikes and SB to save spikes. In PvE, SB is good against HM mobs that usually hit for 70-100, and PS is good against HM bosses that destroy you for 300-500 damage.

Look at the damage the sin does and tell me which is better?

LightningHell · Dec 05, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

I D E L E T E D I: Good advice. I get a 22 sec PS, which does indeed prevent one bolt of lighting to get a team mate. It's the 10 sec cap on SB that prevents me from using it.

It has a "the next 10 attacks/spells" clause; it can last indefinitely.

However, even perfect play on an Assassin should not be able to kill a monk 1 on 1, unless it was engineered to do so (i.e. The typical Assassin build wouldn't be able to, even if every skill was directly chained after the other).

Age · Dec 06, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

It might be just the way you are playing your Monk as Warriors would have a hard time trying to take you down and they do more damage than a Sin.You could always switch to smiting anything goes in Ab really.

You could also use some Warrior skill on there disciplined stance or balance stance or spirit.

dont feel no pain · Dec 06, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Sins are too reliant of if and buts, blocking, removing conditions and hexbreaker is your friend.

ensoriki · Dec 06, 2007, 12:27 AM // 00:27

An assassin cannot kill you in the blink of an eye

1 useful secondary for any monk dealing with assassin troubles
is literally the assassin secondary.

Dark escape will always make you survive Any assassin spike (if its not removed >.>) long enough to heal.
Running on my mo/A i've come across Sp and SoJ sins
Dark escape makes it easy to deal with them, along with many other enemies.

Theres many other ways, but the fact that your saying your getting killed before you can blink leaves much to wonder about.

Also try different builds

I played a Life Sheath monk and with Life Sheath followed by prot spirit (quickly after it ends)
Im able to mitigate a large amount of damage.

Turbobusa · Dec 06, 2007, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Guardian and/or spirit bond + some heal is all you need. maybe mending touch.

namhvo · Dec 06, 2007, 12:48 AM // 00:48

take SoD, problem solved.

bungusmaximus · Dec 06, 2007, 12:52 AM // 00:52

[wiki]natural stride[/wiki] and 9 wilderness survival.

Not too shabby in AB anyways. And learn to see stuff coming on beforehand instead of fixing afterwards.

Tyla · Dec 06, 2007, 12:53 AM // 00:53

if you commence battle - keep guardian up on yourself.
and if a sin comes, hit some secondary prof defensive skill if he goes unblockable.

Ultra Mega · Dec 06, 2007, 01:24 AM // 01:24

This 1/4 of a second spike you speak of is impossible. It takes that long for them to shadow step in, then it will take 2-3 seconds to spew their combo out.
As others have said some secondary defensive skills will help you, like shield bash, dark escape and natural stride. You shouldn't need every skill slot for monk skills, if you are you need to compress the build to use 6 monk skills leaving 2 for defence.

Div · Dec 06, 2007, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codesmythe

holymasamune: Thanks for the guide references. They are very well written and exceedingly useful. I probably do need to read them again for the 5th or 6th time. However I have to wonder how long it's been since you've played in an AB match. Use all you've got and let us know if you manage to evade one of those sin hotshots. Not every sin is capable of doing this, so you'll need to play a several games. BTW, I have managed to survive up to 2 or 3 simultaneous attacks by 2 or 3 opponents. I can hit buttons if given a reasonable amount of time.

The best way to survive them is to cast something like shielding hands as soon as they teleport to you, and then use a WoH, dismiss condition, ZB, or another heal after they knock you down (they will generally). The shielding hands is there to help you live long enough to cast your other spells. I've last played an AB match during the double weekend, winning half my matches despite being in deep enemy territory, which I'll like to say was awesome faction farming--5k a win! And I've also had my times in 1v1 or even 1v2 sins situation with Ekelon being a sin (and we all know he's the "best" sin in the game :P)

If you can see them coming, put a guardian or SoA on yourself, and it'll be fine. Finally, defensive skills such as shield bash, dark escape, and return will save yourself as well.